National Free Flight Society

SEN 3217

  1. Isaacson Winter Classic Results
  2. Upcoming CIAM Meeting
  3. On Regimenting Q – Mark 2
  4. Time and Time Again


Isaacson Winter Classic Results

From:  Glenn Schneider

Isaacson Winter Classic  February 10 11 12    Lost Hills CA
last Fab Feb Results
Our numbers were limited probably out of fear of mud from the recent rains and competition from the Super Bowl and the Kiwi World Cup.  The mud was not a problem, the Super bowl was for the locals.  The weather was beautiful for all three days, 60’s, minimal wind.  The most populous events were Catapult , Handlaunch, and Vintage FAI Power. The low attendance resulted in pistachios for just about everyone.

1/2A  AMA gas
Hulan Mathies     225

B AMA gas

Jeff Carman            1004

C AMA gas
Justin Martin         662
Jeff Carman          520

1/2A Nostalgia
Rocco Ferrario     540  (Early)
Rocco Ferrario     526
Hulan Mathies      509

A Nostalgia
Justin Martin        1242
Bob Edmundsen   539
Hulan Mathies       467

Golden Age
Hulan Mathies        405

Vintage FAI Power
Glenn Schneider    900
Guy Menanno         887
John Buskill            886
Bob Edmundsen     797

Ates Gurcan            521
Glenn Grell              349

Glenn Grell               460
Ates Gurcan             348

Andrade Rubber
Ates Gurcan             495
Glenn Grell               371

Pro P-30
Ates  Gurcan            600
Glenn Grell               570

Nostalgia Rubber
Glenn Grell               460
Ates Gurcan              147

Jon James                 544
Stan Buddenbohm     517
Chris Reck                 405
Ken Bauer                  332
Tim Batiuk                  228

Stan Buddenbohm     600
Tim Batiuk                  528
Ken Bauer                  322
Chris Reck                  157

Classic Glider
Tim Batiuk                  464
Stan Buddenbohm     437

Jack Murphy               960
Jon James                  600

A-B  Electric
Jack Murphy B            360
Jack Murphy  A             341

P-30  Mass Launch
Stan Buddenbohm       181

E-36 Mass Launch
Stan Buddenbohm       231
Jack Murphy                113


Upcoming CIAM Meeting

The Plenary meeting agenda is online at  at

Big change in the F1  Free Flight section appears to be the removal of non-certified altimeters and the Altimeter dance

On Regimenting Q – Mark 2

From Urs Schaller

About Aram’s post circa a Hungarian proposal on F1Q change. I did not see the original wording, only Aram’s description.

It surely is a worthwhile idea to be discussed in the future. I like the fixed energy budget for all models, less the 2J*g addiction. That would lead to even less flexibility on model design. Given just an energy budget and not defining a surface area together with free weight, or maybe only max. weight, should lead to greater freedom/diversification to models. It would get closer to the F1B rules where the energy limit is determined by the rubber weight.

I feel it is just not the right moment to propose such a radical new rule. Even if such a rule would not apply for the near future, consider that in less than one and half year we will compete for the first time in a World Championship. We should wait a moment and keep calm to see what happens on there and discuss eventual changes to the FAI rules later. To many changes are deleterious and pilots will shy away from F1Q.

Only useful change before the WC is going to 2J*g, or at least leave it up to the organizer, not the competitors, if the competition is flown with 2 or 3J*g.

Urs Schaller

Time and Time Again

From chris.edge
I find it incredible that an initiative that aims to improve the quality of model timing has been wrapped up in a decision to disenfranchise users of non-EDIC altimeters in flyoffs. What’s the problem: is it really that difficult to arrange the ‘dance’ or somesuch ? Non-EDIC altimeters are just as good at timing flights so, respectfully, some understanding of the reasoning in not allowing their use is appropriate in my view. Yes you can invoke a local rule to do it but then why not insist that everyone has to have leaves painted on to their wings (and one guy was ahead of us on that one !).

Better timing of total flight time is not the real issue as there many classes where every flight is inherently fraught with poor timings and that’s anything with an IC or E engine. That’s what the fliers want solved and it can be solved right now – but not by any altimeter system, that’s been shown to not be accurate. Simple, lightweight, cheap and small commercial systems pulling low current are available right now that can time engine runs reliably, consistently and accurately right to the end of prop rotation. (Interestingly if invoked you’ll find that power fliers will be able to increase engine runs and gain greater duration, but that’s another discussion.) Additionally these systems can deal with all those non-max flight scenarios that are often dismissed as ‘very unlikely to occur and thus irrelevant’ such as soft launches, flat glides up slopes, ground effects as well as mid-airs, line breaks on towline models and lots of other stuff that units measuring just altitude can’t cope with. You can buy the kit today, it’s been demonstrated across the main FAI classes; goodness, the concept was demo’d at Lost Hills over a decade ago !

I recall a rather excellent draft specification for a timing system published here and I feel it’s time to present that again for discussion and update. Just trying to get automated timing in the Sporting Code without considering the bigger issues is just a sticking plaster.


PS I guess I’ll get flamed by suggesting contest rules that encourage flights outside visual range don’t meet many national flying regulations and could lead to banning of FF by relevant regulators, so I wont.

 Editor’s comment

Another point of view. The device referenced  is a small video recorder with Audio. Certified of course. Was this tested at the Haggis Wolrd  Cup? and did the Chicken Dance replace the Altimeter dance ?