National Free Flight Society

SEN 2274

  1. F1A and F1H Standard classes
  2. 180 was a Max – 360 is a Max
  3. Leeping and Bounding -Idea re keeping FF in bounds & still fun
  4. (over) Performance
  5. All Simple for the Dino
  6. Where on FB
  7. More on the FB saga
  8. Where are the 120s?



F1A and F1H Standard classes

From: Bernhard Schwendemann

Concerning the remark of Roger Morell in SEN 2272 about possible standard

In Germany we have F1A-Standard and F1H-Standard introduced some years ago
and it works as Roger described.
The standard classes are “sub-classes”, they fulfil all the requirements of
the “normal” classes. Thus a fly with a standard model will be classed in
the normal ranking and in the standard ranking as well.

For size and frame technology we have no restrictions for the standards,
thus for functions.
* One timer function only plus DT
* Timer functions must be irreversible
* No Flapper

* One timer function only plus DT
* Timer functions must be irreversible
* No Flapper
* Servo for control of the DT only
* No minimum weight (to allow to fly smaller models)

In our national championship 2016 we had
F1A total 62 participants, thereof 14 Standard
F1H total 14 participants, thereof  8 Standard

Bernhard Schwendemann

{top of the list for Bernhard – we put Bernhard’s piece first because he describes something that is actually being done.  This item does not address any over performance quest but it does address the issue of the performance of the top guys scaring off ‘regular’ people or beginners.}

180 was a Max – 360 is a Max

From: Charles Markos

Change the FAI max to 6 minutes.

This simple change should provide a solution to all the issues that have
been brought forth in recent SEN letters.   I think that 10 minutes is even
better, but my obsolete fleet has only one mechanical timer that will run
that long, but only if it is freshly cleaned.

Such long maxes would only be called for in cases of spectacularly superb
conditions.  The CD and Jury will always have the option to reduce the max
to one suitable to the weather and field conditions.

Additional changes may be necessary if long maxes are adopted:  Perhaps a
10-minute launch window and a requirement that each contestant time a
fellow contestant. The use of dedicated personal timers is discouraged.

Most of my flying these days is at Muncie.  I have had several flights over
the years that have been airborne for maxes greater than 6 minutes
(intentional) and some short max flights that have been airborne for more
than 10 minutes with never one leaving the field.

Chuck Markos

Leeping and Bounding -Idea re keeping FF in bounds & still fun


A thought from Leeper:Add more flights, ala MaxMen & Patterson comps in past, but ALLOW flights to be made at random, i.e., any time within specified announced period. The maxout flyers would then proceed to fly off at specified announced period.To give example: Say a 7[or even10] flight contest is scheduled from 0800 to 1500hrs. Then FO could begin at 1600 with the max time increasing at one minute increments.My take is, & always has been, that making MORE flights is a more effective way to produce a just & fair result, than inordinately long Max times, especially when flown during thermally hours.  Obviously, since the day will be approaching sundown, flight times generally become self-regulating & max times may not even be an issue, which ought to produce a winner without straining eyeballs of timekeepers or exceed limitsof the field.  FWIW, Leeper (formerly an FAI flyer)

(over) Performance

From: john carter

Guys great comments by Chris Edge ,you all know I am on his side,we as responsible people must take  note of our changing world and weather it’s favourable or not ensure we try to keep our models with in the site boundaries . All sorts of reasons safety, legislation etc mean we need to act. It’s great 100 metre launches and big times but remember a few years back contests were won on much lower scores and generally in sight easily !

Reducing performance will not increase entries I am afraid FF is a dinosaur world wide
We who now partake in this great pastime are the final generation so please let’s not kid our selfs that we are suddenly going to get a boat load of new competitors.

In the UK we have debated the subject of numbers and simply there is no answer .We must preserve what we have and ensure people who legislate do not stop our sport for us . We need to take note of a changing world other wise one day we wake up and ha ho no free flight.
It’s sad that some can not see the problems of excess performance it may be because they live in a big country or simply do not care for others.


All Simple for the Dino

From: Michael Achterberg

F1 flyers…Very nice Sen. Interesting discussions. Tony thought. Reduce allowable wind speed for small fields. Simple. Reduce max for same fields. Simple. Eliminate thermal detection equipment. Simple. Pay the neighbors a couple hundred dollars to allow us to retieve models from there field. Simple. Rc rudder only to glide into wind. Not so simple but will work. Add 1000 gr to each model. Fly at park.. Think they call it payload. Simple..If anyone thinks that freeflight is going to grow with few fields, high travel costs, expensive models, they are dreaming or delusional. Aint happening. So lets let the boys play with there toys as long as possible and have fun while we can.  Ruining our events for the future of saving freeflight, will not save freeflight. It will just kill it faster. Simple way to fix. Wait and we all will move to next level. Freeflight heaven or dancing with the dinosaurs.. .Dino.

Editor’s comment – I believe that with the exception of Jurassic park Dinos are now extinct. So does this mean we need to re-name the Lost Hills field?

Where on FB

From :Jim Farmer

Hey Roger, how can I get to this discussion on FB?  Doesn’t appear to be in the “freeflight” group.


Jim the FB posting was by Diego German Bovari of Argentina who cut and pasted it from SEN.  To see it you had to be a friend of Diego

For this reason I normally do not post about FF on my own time line put post in the Free Flight group because many more people will see it.  I think this is important because it make our Free Flight activities and message more widely read and make us seem less like a exclusive, non-welcoming club/clique.

I did just share it with Free Flight group. Not sure if it will show the history

More on the FB saga

Bernard Guest I am no F1A expert but my answer to start. The F1Aers can follow with more educated answers: 1. maybe for the top flyers but probably not everyone. 2. I think flappers are a bit of a red herring. What you gain in launch may be lost in drag associated with the flap mechanisms and also lower reliability related to high complexity. However, a flapper expert would know more than I. Is it telling that our top Canadian flyer is one of the best in the world and is not using a flapper (at least not that I am aware of)? 3. Sure. FAI is, and arguably, should be, skewed towards the younger more athletic flyers. Like all sports.
Tony Mathews Bernard Guest our top F1A flyer now has a flapper and was secretly testing it at Lost Hills. It’s not ready for public viewing yet though….

Chris Edge Bernard, you are being mischievous, we are talking about problems with FO flights where the current standard is roughly (roughly !) 7mins for the three classes. Limit the performance there, flown normally (normally !) in low thermal conditions and you will reduce the identified risks considerably, not ‘a bit’ – my view of course. And yes, your top Canadian flyer has a flapper that he rather likes (source: a top Canadian flyer) as do many others who flew at LH. I totally agree with you (subs, please check this) that we should never have gone to 5 flights and need to go back to 7 to reduce numbers in FO as you propose – exactly right (nurse, pass the pills !). CHE

Bernard Guest Hehehe ?? I am nothing if not mischievous CChris Edge obviously my responses to DDon DeLoachshould now be yes yes and yes. I’ll leave that there. Am curious to know where don is going with this??
On my mischief …. well ok if the models are routinely flying away in the morning flyoff then we have a problem. Don’t see that in B … won’t speak for A and C

Chris Edge “I am nothing if not mischievous” You haven’t been planting fossils in rocks again have you ? I’ve heard the rumours. CHE

Where are the 120s?

We only got one response from our request for Lost Hills Altimeter readings – and that was 100m not  120m.  So is that 120 under contest conditions just after contest pub bragging ?   Maybe Frederic is the only honest man ?

SEN Status

Our new web site is online with archives of SEN going back to 1997 plus many items about FAI Free Flight. It can be found at

Existing SEN subscribers can update their preferences by following the update your preferences link at the bottom of this page.

New users can sign up at  this link 
or at the SEN website

Roger Morrell