National Free Flight Society

SEN 2177

Table of Contents – SEN 2177

  1. Looking for F1B to Q
  2. USA Junior Team Advice
  3. Euro Champs Review
  4. SW FAI Challenge Update

Redux, Rubber to Electric conversion (looking for another old F1B)
From:Dick Ivers
My project to convert a well-used, second hand F1B model to electric power was a surprising success. The plane maxed all the F1Q rounds at both the Kiwi Cup and the Nats, finishing first at the latter. The unexpected but welcome results led me to think I need another of the same for further development. Therefore, I’m looking for another F1B candidate. Prefer an Andriukov 152 cm; must have a 32 mm motor tube. I use my own timers so no timer needed or a disposable mechanical OK. No front end or prop needed.

Dick Ivers

USA Junior Team Advice

The following is adapted from  an email I sent to George who asking for model – engine help  for his budding FF son in SEN 2173. I think this may also help other families who are thinking of pursuing the 2018 USA Jr FF team.

Hi George,
I was the manager for the Jr Team that just returned from Prelip Macedonia. You may have seen Bob Stalick’s report on the NFFS blog, I believe it will be in the NFFS digest soon. It was a fantastic trip and FF experience. My son was on the 2000 and 2002 Jr Team– great memories. We were a home school family too, Dallas, my son is now a satellite design engine for Boeing. Other past Jr team members include a Boeing aircraft structural analyst (Vlad Andriukov), a  Navy Seal (Austin Gunder), a design engineer (Sarah Radziunas), a F16 pilot (John Lorbieki) and a Otis  Elevator engineer (Oliver Cai). The list goes on.
It is great your and your son are interested in the Jr team. We need more like you. Keep in touch as you get help on models and engines.
Have you read the Jr program? It’s on the NFFS website in the Junior section. The next program will likely be the the same.  I’d like to point out that generally, a Jr flies only one event at the Jr WChamps.  This team was unusual with 3 of the boys flying 2 events.  That is not the desire of the Jr Team Selection Committee (Charlie Jones and me). If we had an abundance of Jr flyers, we would have 9  on the team, each flying just one event.
If your son has not  selected ‘his’ primary event and so wants to try F1A, B and P that’s great.  I just wanted to make sure there was not a misunderstanding that a Jr team member had to fly all three events.
At this point, only two of the Jrs from the last team  are age eligible for the next team, Cade Fedor’s main event being F1P and Joel Yori’s  F1B (although he flew F1A to bronze position in Macedonia!).  We sure hope to there or 9 plus interested Jr flyers for the next Jr team.
It is my experience that young (14 yrs and older) flyers today come up to speed very quickly when provided with high performance models. RDT is a key to keeping the model out of the repair shop.  We of the years of working up from balsa- tissue model before going to higher performance models (while not bad) are of the past.
For F1A I suggest starting with an good used conventional airfoil electronic timer model with RDT, there are many around as the top flyers have moved into the LDA models. Start with straight towing and proceed to circling when the Jr thinks they are ready.  Joel Yori  maxed out at the  Prelip cup flying such a model and then placed third at the Prelip Jr W. Champs straight towing a new state of the art  M&K LDA model.
It’s harder to find  used electronic F1B models so a good used mechanical timer will work well. Finding all the support equipment at a reasonable price will be a challenge.  Practice of set-up, winding and launch are the keys here.
For F1P I eat my words about balsa and tissue. Alex Stalick flew a 10 year old Astro Star to third place (Cody Secor’s back-up model when he won his first F1P Jr W. Champs in 2006) . So dad and son can build a competitive  wood model. Having a good engine like the Cyclon is the way to go.
Comments  from experienced flyers of the  large time commitment  required to fly FAI FF holds many families back from pursuing the Jr FF team. I’ve learned that the young people today can juggle many  activities  with FAI FF being one. The key is having high performance models and a mentor to get them flying competitive quickly.
Any Jr / family member in the Southern California area wishing to pursue the next Jr Team in F1A can contact me for assistance.

Thermals, Jim Parker

My personal opinion about the FAI 2016 Free Fight European Championships
From: Ismet Yurtseven

My personal opinion about the FAI 2016 Free Fight European Championships are following. Rating is between 1 and 10. 1 is the lowest, 10 is the highest note.
Region and Zrenjanin: 9 Zrenjanin and Novi Sad were beautiful and restful.
Hotel Vojvodina: 8 Rooms were comfortable and clean. Desk clerks were polite and helpful. Location was very good. It was a nice meeting point.
Food: 8 Food was good; service was very slow.
Web site: 6 Enough functionality but not  modern and rich.
Registration: 7 Easy and fast, thank you for the gift but the quality was not high.
Processing: 7 Generally it was good. The official scale was not in parallel to the ground and the calibration weight was 500 grams which is too much for free flight. (We are trying to weigh 0.1 grams)
Field: 3 This was the most surprising part for me. The field seems to be huge but the usable area was very small. Even more, there was not space to change the starting line. One side was very high corn, one side was big water channel without bridges, one side was wet area, one side was bog. There were power lines very close to the starting lines. Many models landed in corn and bog. Some models hit to the power lines. I believe that the field conditions affected the results.
Car parking organization: 2 There was not a well-organized parking place and there was not assigned people for the organization of the car parking.
Organization of starting positions: 5 The poles were very close to each other. There was not enough space to change the starting line. There was a very limited space for F1A fliers. There should be two lines at the right and left of the starting line where the access is restricted (between the right and left lines, there can be only time keeper, jury, flier to start and team manager).
Announcements: 3 There was not a powerful announcement system. The power for the horn to open and close the rounds were supplied from the car in the field (horn connected to the accumulator of the car). The third round of F1B closed 2 minutes later. Generally, it was primitive.
Time keeping: 7 Generally, it was good but I observed some major mistakes.
Announcement of the results: 4 Like an ordinary world cup contest, the results were printed on a small piece of paper. Maybe, functionally it is being enough, but it was European Championships.
Politeness of president of the jury: 1 When my model hit to the power lines, in a very polite way, I asked to the president of jury for a re-flight chance. In a very impolite and haughty way, he said me “if you don’t know the rules, why you are competing in this competition”. I know the rules, but in which part of the rules it is written that there will be power lines which is very close to the starting line?
Pro-activity of the organization to prevent vital risks: 1 Especially for the old people, there were many risky situations. There was a big water channel. I did not see bridges on it. The bog was big and dangerous. Corn was very high and big. Model retrieval was very difficult from the bog and corn. One F1C model hit to the power lines and detonated. But the most dangerous was the following: In the fourth round of the F1B competition, a very strong front and storm came. It was around 1 pm. The storm and the rain were very strong. There was lightning very near to the people in the field. Weather forecast websites were indicating this situation exactly for the correct time. Since the probability of this event was very high, the organizer should be in contact with the local metrological institutions, should stop the competition after third round and let the people to leave from the field. We are lucky that we did not meet with a catastrophic situation.

Opening and closing ceremonies: 5
My overall rating: 4

Respectfully yours,
Ismet Yurtseven



OCTOBER 29 & 30, 2016


(Reserve Day October 31, 2016)



                                                  AMERICAS CUP EVENT     

                                                     AMA SANCTIONED #1826




For Classes: F1B, F1G, F1H, F1A, F1Q, F1S, F1C, F1J, F1P, P-30, E-36, Catapult Glider


Saturday: F1A, F1B, F1Q and FAI Power. 

(7) One hour rounds commencing at 8:00AM for all events. Round 1 is 240 seconds, 2 thru 7 is 180 sec.

FAI Power To Be Combined (F1J will be allowed a 7 second motor run).

Saturday Fly Offs will begin no earlier than 3:30PM.


Sunday: F1G, F1H, F1S

Tie Breaker (No Max) 7:45-8:00, (5) 60 Minute rounds commencing at 8:30AM; 120 sec maxes. Tie Breaker time to be used to determine winner after 2 fly off rounds.


Sunday Fly Offs

No earlier than 1:00PM (30 minutes after close of Round 5) fly offs will begin. For F1G, F1H, F1S the first fly off round Max will be 180 seconds. The second fly off Max, if required, will be 240 seconds.

For all Sunday events, if a winner is not determined at the conclusion of two fly off rounds, the Espresso Fly off times will be used to determine final placing.


E-36, P-30 and Catapult Glider, AMA Rules (can be flown either day but all flights must be completed the same day) (Saturday 8:00-3:00) (Sunday 8:00-1:00)


Prizes 1st through 3rd place for all events, including E-36, P-30 and Catapult Glider.

Perpetual Trophies for winners in F1A, F1H, F1Q, F1B and F1G.


FAI Entry Fee: $25 for first event entry, $15 for each additional event entry.

$15 for the first AMA event and $10 for each additional.


Contest Directors:

Mike Richardson, 4615 Estate Ranch St, N. Las Vegas, NV 89031 cell #317-435-3427

Tom Ioerger, 692 Marina Dr. Boulder City, NV cell 410-868-4754


Directions to El Dorado Dry Lake   

On Hwy 95 approximately 7 miles south of Hwy 93. Access through the Desert Tortoise fence is on the west side of Highway

95 on the north edge of where the power lines cross the highway. The flying area is to the west, either in the middle (35.867N/114.943W) or on the south end (35.846N/114.961W) of the lake bed. In the early morning, the field is approximately 35 minutes drive time from the Las Vegas “Strip”. Camping on the field is permitted.


                                                 Proceeds go to the Junior FAI TEAM


 Note this has some minor corrections over the previous flyer

Roger Morrell