National Free Flight Society

SEN 2156

Table of Contents – SEN 2156

  1. Sierra Cup (and endless October Update)
  2. Jim Mayes
  3. On stick-to-it-iviness
  4. Rules to can
  5. Contest Cancellation

Sierra Cup Update
From: Mike McKeever

Sierra Cup update from CD – Couple of changes this year for Sierra Cup as a result of my move from CA to NV.  I will be living comfortably in my trailer until after Sierra Cup.  As a result there is no need to pre-enter and I will take entries at Lost Hills this year.  My phone for any questions is (916) 390-3212.  Look forward to seeing you for our endless October and our FAI finals.  Feel free to contact me by phone or Email @

Note that the California FAI Contest (formerly the Calfornia FAI Invitational run by Juan Livotto) run by Brian Van Nest which will host the Kotuku World Cup of New Zealand will be on the same weekend( 1, 2 and 3 October)  , but not the same time!

This will be followed by the USA Team selection Finals for the 2017 World Champs in Hungary.

Participation, help and even spectating in all welcome.

Jim Mayes
From: Aram Schlosberg

Jim Mayes, an electric flier from Florida, passed away on Thursday July the 7th.  I flew electric with Jim a number of times at the Nats as well as in Geneseo NY, where he was accompanied by his grandchildren. Jim and Vivian also came especially to help running the Nats in 2014. Jim loved flying and it was a joy to fly with him.

On stick-to-it-iveness.
From: Andrew Barron
Free flight friends,
On stick-to-it-iveness.
Aren’t there established AMA and FAI guidelines for conducting our meets, particularly including World Cup and America’s Cup meets, which have open invitation to all licensed fliers. Postponements should be based on actual, not forecasted conditions. Moreover, reholding at a later date requires America’s Cup admin approval (as well as AMA approval in the case of U.S. meets).

My observation (as one who has been to contests in the U.S. extensively and often around the world) for 48 years is that the forecasts are quite unreliable, with regards to arrival time, strength, and especially wind speeds of weather systems. The extent to which the forecasts change is also evidence of this. For instance, for the Skyscraper Annual, the forecast five days in advance was for winds well over 29mph both days. One day in advance the forecast for Satuday afternoon was 11mph in the afternoon. The reality according to the CD was only 3-5mph all day Saturday, with very little drift of the models.

As for travel, maybe Aram can afford refundable tickets. But for many of us mortals, economy class is a must to be able to make it to distant meets. These are not refundable (though they can be changed for a fee). But one’s life schedule, worked out often months in advance, will not be in alignment with such changes and the ticket value is then lost.

If potential participants get the impression that the organizers will be prone to cancel based on inaccurate advance forecasts, we will not be inclined to arrange to come. This would not be a good development for our sport.


Rules to can

From: John Carter
Hi re the contest cancellation.
I have over the years fell foul of the cancellation of World Cup events,again due to weather or its effects on the site !
And in one case lack of entries .
In all of these I had to sustain the loss of airfare etc . No doubt others incurred the same abortive costs .
I agree we now have far better weather forecasting .In the UK we have included a comprehensive weather cancellation clause for our team selection events only.This is something the FAI should do . Strict guide lines must be put in the rules and these should include that in the event the contest is cancelled as was the Canadian event,the following year the contest would not qualify for World Cup status . May be then the organisers will be a bit more considerate .
Remember it’s not mandatory to fly the contest just because you have entered and made the effort to attend .Cancellation removes this privilege. Contests are for competitors not the organisers. The only real reason to cancel a World Cup event is when the site becomes un available not weather .
Regards john carter UK

Contest Cancellation
From: Leslie Farkas
As a response to Don DeLoach’s comments in SEN I would like
to add the following.  I do agree that a
contest should be postponed only for lack of field excess or natural disasters.
The purpose of running a World Cup or any contest is to provide a fair condition for all participants.  In the case of the two Canadian World cups
the weather turned out to be 25km/h wind gusting to 37km/h. which is above the
FAI limit. Based on the size of the field and wind speed we did not consider it
as fair condition.

The purchased airline tickets are a valid concern.  I looked into the history and statistics of
our contests. It was fifteen years ago the last time when we had competitors
coming to Canada Cup from Australia, Finland, Germany and Spain. It was about
twelve years ago when we had the pleasure to host US competitors from the West
Coast.  This time only Brian Van Nest indicated that he will come and in fact he purchased his airline ticket which did cost him $200.00 for the cancellation. Our regular foreign participants are from the East coast USA and to alert them one week earlier about the
postponement was a logical and considerate decision. After all, it would have
been an unpleasant and expensive experience for competitors traveling six to
eight hours, spending money for gas, hotels and sitting on the field in the
blowing wind.  Because the weather forecast, many of them probably would have made their own decision not to travel.

Based on the above, we stand firm behind our decision to
postpone the two World Cups.  Looking forward to see everybody on August  13th
and 14th for a good competition and BBQ with a glass of wine or beer
on Saturday after the flyoff.

Leslie Farkas and Tony Mathews

editor’s comment. For whatever it’s worth I was also booked and it will cost me money to re-use the ticket. I has planned to do both the Canadian and Denver events. I happen to have another commitment on new date because I thought that date was free of important events.

Roger Morrell