National Free Flight Society

SEN 2121

Table of Contents – SEN 2121

  1. 7 or 5 Rounds dept
  2. From Javier Abad
  3. Bill Booth
  4. John Carter
  5. Pierre Chaussebourg
  6. add to the Lost List
  7. Add to the thanks List
  8. Flickr Link
  9. Fat Cat Mechanoic
  10. A double flight line?

7 or 5 rounds Department
From: Javier Abad

Allard, the new format is just for WCh and Continental Ch, for other international contests a different number can be flown…… this just has to be previously anounced.
Ian confirmed to me.
Maybe going back to 14 rounders…i loved them when I was younger 😉


From: Bill Booth

Hi Allard,

Good comments and agree all around with one small exception and that is the
“open revolt” to fly 7 rounds instead of 5. I told Ian Kaynes what I wanted
to do while we were in Mongolia last summer. He advised me that as long as
I advertised in advance that I intended to deviate from the guidlines, that
would be acceptable. The REASON I wanted to deviate from 5 to 7 was
actually self-preservation. This was/is after all the “Bob White Memorial”
meet. When we have to face Bob, known to us as “The Godfather” in the
afterlife, George Batiuk is going to have to explain why he changed it from
14 to 7 rounds. I sure as hell don’t want to have to explain why it was
changed from 7 to 5 rounds under my watch!

By the way, I also considered changing the F1C motor run to 4.5 seconds.
THAT probably would be considered a “revolt”.

Bill Booth

From: John Carter

Roger the debate 5 or 7 rounds I believe that 7 rounds is a better contest at World and European Champs but agree it can put pressure on fly offs may be at this level of competition we ought to be flying 2 contests of 5 round plus a fly off and taking the total time ? Championships would take longer but you would not have the host country holding a world cup event before the champs .Now on single day world cups it now the norm that we fly 5 rounds yep that’s ok but I would say that as with Zulpich that this is ok to fly 7 as the contest is flown A one day and BC the next .

John Carter.


More on 7 is better than 5
Allard, if you look at the rules, 5 rounds is not mandatory for international events!
The rule 3.1.3 a (and same for other classes B & C) says: “Each competitor is entiteld to five official flighs in world and continental championships. For other international events the number of official flights is five unless a different number has been announced in advance and approaved by CIAM

I understand that in international events, it can be also less than five as it says “a different number”.

The only thing the organiser must do is to anounce how many rounds are going to be flown, in the information bulletin of the contest, and eventually on the score board.

I also agree with you that 7 rounds in Free flight is much more interesting than five, and that five rounds will give more people in the fly-off than seven rounds, even with extended maxes in first and last rounds.

Pierre Chaussebourg

Add to the Lost List
From: Paul Crowley

Please add to the lost list at the FAB FEB..
If you are in the area.
A F1B on Sat. at the Max Men. Red tips and black center panels on the bottom with white at the break, red top with white at the break.Most likely in the in the orchard with the larger trees directly to the west of the camp ground,west of the north/south road thru the center of the orchard and just south of the road between the large trees and the small trees.
Paul Crowley
Phone 1-586-294 -1236

Add to the Thanks List

From: Paul Crowley

One more post.

A Thank You,
This is a big thanks to the following friends for all the help they provided in the search for my lost F1B at the Max Men. It’s still out there but I still have hope.
Rich MacCleery, Mike Richardson, Jack Murphy, Charlie Jones, Tiffaney O’Dell, Blake Jensen and Bill Gannon
Model Builders are are t6he best!

Paul Crowley

Flickr Link
A user report diffculty with the Link to Tom Faith’s Ike and Kiwi Photos. I tried the link and it seemed to work for me. I always cut and paste it rather than re typing. All SEN readers will know my typing skills are limited.

But there is a shorter link that I have included below


Fat cat mechanic

From: Javier Abad

Fat cat mechanic,

I have had Mike Szura service my 1974 vintage Suzuki ( ex Roger Sympson and Henry Spence ) bike a few times in the Gypsum sheds, you can find him on Facebook and lives in Bakersfield area I believe.
Hope to see Steve back there….


A Double Flight Line?

In SEN 2119 I tried to analyze why so many B fliers (71%) reached the flyoffs at the Fab-Feb contests. It seems that the fly-one-time-one mode allows massive launches of up to half the models, once a thermal has been clearly marked.

To mitigate massive launches I suggested a slanted flight line, set at about 30 degrees to the dirft/wind at non-glider events. Instead of everyone getting an opportunity to co-piggyback in two mass launches, a slanted flight line would force more flyers upwind to find their own thermals. Consequently, contests would be more challenging and flyoffs would be smaller.

However, a drawback of a slanted flight line is that a flier might be at the upwind portion of the line three consecutive rounds. And a change in the drift/wind direction could require rotating the flight line during the round (although different color lines could be set up in advance).

Luckily, there’s a much better solution. Suppose there are (1) two flight lines perpendicular to the wind, one upwind and the other downwind set at least 50 meters apart, with fliers setup between the lines; that (2) poles, spaced at truly 10 meters apart, are even on the upwind line, odd on the downwind line; that (3) fliers would be assigned random starting positions. So those who fly upwind, beginning with an even number, would fly downwind the next round at a higher odd number. And once the last pole is reached, one moves to the lowest next odd/even pole.

Now, half the fliers are on the upwind line which means that only a quarter of the models could be launched almost simultaneously by those on the upwind line. And if poles are truly 10 meters apart, it will be riskier to piggyback models launched in parallel, further away along the upwind line. So more of upwind line fliers will be compelled to choose their own air (relative to what happens now on a single line setup). Those downwind would naturally piggyback, although only off up to a quarter the models. And because the lines are shorter, rotating the line is less onerous.

We all have been indoctrinated to fly from a flight line perpendicular to the wind. But when half the fliers are flying upwind and poles are spaced 10 meters apart, it’s more difficult for an upwind flier to co-launch in a thermal. So an upwind flier would have to choose their own air more frequently, increasing their chances to sub max. And counter intuitively, a double line setup is completely fair because the next round the upwind and downwind fliers are switched.

The minimum quorum of a double line setup are four fliers in a fly-one-time-one world. And yes, contests would be more challenging.


Roger Morrell