National Free Flight Society

SEN 2020

Table of Content – SEN 2020

  1. It’s the flappers and folders not the gears
  2. Argentinean freeflight National 2015
  3. 2015 Big Al’s Contest Report
  4. Marty Thompson
  5. F1C….RDT Possible interpretation.
  6. F1C question
  7. F1C Rulings
  8. 2020

It’s the flappers and folders not the gears
From: Allard van Wallene

With all due respect, I am surprised to see respected F1C flyers throwing geared engines in the equation to suit their argument (to which I agree of course).
But I never mentioned gears and was merely comparing straight from flappers/folders using equal power sources.
I see there is consensus that flappers and folders or the combination of the two have less drag. So surely we can agree that at 4 seconds a low(er) drag model has more speed (otherwise they wouldn’t get higher in the first place).
Speed multiplied by time equals distance (unless I’m flawed ;-). The higher the speed the more distance is travelled over a period of 1 second.
Cut away 1 second from a higher speeding model, and you cut away more distance. I don’t think we need rocket science to prove that. So given equal power sources (emphasis added), the penalty for a flapper/folder is higher.
Sometimes to visualise my arguments I give an example in the extreme: if the engine run would be 3 seconds the difference in altitude is even less and extrapolating it to zero gives zero altitude difference (purely hypothetical to prove my point of course).
Comparing geared to non geared models is a totally different argument which I leave to the experts.

thermals, Allard

Argentinean freeflight National 2015

From: Ramiro Gonzalez

Hi Roger, here I send the link of pictures about our national in Argentina, the contests were held in Embalse – Cordoba, the same field of the 2005 and 2011 world championships.
Most of the pics are from the F1B days, team selection and National Contest.

People can see the results here:

Please, sorry for my poor english and thanks for showing our activity.
Ramiro Gonzalez

2015 Big Al’s Contest Report

From : Walt Ghio

The starting of the contest was delayed for several hours do to a strong breeze from the west. This lead to several flyers to head for home and some to just enjoy the day visiting with friends. The majority of the contest had breeze conditions, but did not lead to any issues for retrieval of the models. The three flyers that maxed out in F1A will hold their flyoff at a later date along with the two Vintage FAI max outs.

A big “thanks” for Ron McBurnett who had again made Bissonnette Memorial T-Shirts for this year.


 F1A RD 1 2 3 4 5FO
1 Ken Bauer 180 180 180 180 180 900
2 Rene Linberger 180 180 180 180 180 900
3 Mike McKeever 180 180 180 180 180 900
4 Austin VanNest JR 167 180 180 180 180 887
5 Jim Parker 180 180 90 180 180 810
6 Shlomi Rosenzweig 180 28 125 0 180 513
7 Don Zink 36 180 141 0 0 357
8 Pierre Brunn 10 0 0 0 0 10
F1B RD 1 2 3 4 5TOTAL
1 Servak Malkhasyan JR 180 180 180 180 180 900
2 Blake Jensen 180 180 180 173 180 893
3 Charlie Jones 180 180 180 180 162 882
4 Dick Myers 134 180 180 180 180 854
5 Roger Morrell 180 180 0 0 0 360
6 Mike Richardson 128 86 0 0 0 214
7 Mike Davis 180 7 0 0 0 187
F1C RD 1 2 3 4 5TOTAL
1 Ron McBurnett 180 180 180 180 180 900
F1G RD 1 2 3 4 5TOTAL
1 Tiffany O'Dell 120 120 120 120 120 600
2 Geralyn Jones 120 120 120 120 114 594
3 Mike Richardson 120 120 97 95 120 552
4 Mike Pykelny 120 88 56 87 61 412
F1H RD 1 2 3 4 5TOTAL
1 Mike McKeever 120 120 120 120 120 600
2 Blake Jensen 60 120 120 120 120 540
3 Jim Parker 96 120 76 110 120 522
F1Q RD 1 2 3 4 5TOTAL
1 Mike Pykelny 180 0 92 148 180 600
VintagFAI Power 1 2 3 4 5TOTAL
1 Don Kaiser 120 120 120 120 120 600
2 Ken Kaiser 120 120 120 120 120 600
1 Lee Hines 120 120 120 120 120 600
2 Don Kaiser 120 0 0 120

Marty Thompson

From: Ed Carroll

Roger, I just heard from Bruce Hannah, Jr. that Marty Thompson passed a few minutes ago. I know nothing about arrangements. Please post on SEN. May Mary’s spirit soar high forever. Best. Ed

F1C….RDT Possible interpretation.

From: Damjan Zulic

Dear friends.
Information I have about the new RDT rules is as follows:
***The original Austrian proposal said that radio MUST be used. This would have made timers illegal and that was not the intention, just to have radio fitted.
At the Technical Meeting it was changed to “F1C models must be fitted with functional radio control only for irreversible actions to control dethermalisation of the model.”
The other words about also stopping the motor were not changed by the Austrian proposal or the modified proposal.***

If this definition will be applied, than stopping the motor won’t be obligatory, and at the same time, as I interpreute this definition to myself, the existing stand-alone system with the combination of RDT and mechanical timers will suit.
In case of electronic and mechanical timers there is still a problem of technical errors, which are the consequence of material fatigue because of vibrations. Same problem about sensitivity goes to electronic and mechanical timers and therefore the RDT is the most vulnerable part to misfire or fail.
The problem of the 4 second engine run stays. John and Michael explained it nicely that si rule is a complete nonsense in their response to Allard. Assumptions, on which bases the FFSC made their decisions were unfortunately wrong. So I think that it would be appropriate to correct those mistakes at the November meeting. The fact is that it’s still not clear as to why this change is neccesary because the analysis of the results at the WCH and ECH for the last 10 years does not highlight the F1C category among the other. I wrote my results of my tests in my former contributions. Max heights that the model achieved were only about 60-70% comparing to the standard 5 second run. The bigest difference can be seen on the direct drive models, the folder is a close second , the least difference can be acknowledged with the classic geared models .
I hope that we will be loud enough so that CIAM will hear our contributions and criticism, and the will try to keep the FF competitions a combination of craftsmanship, knowledge, experience and technical savvy and progress at their next meeting
Damjan Zulic

F1C question

From: Don DeLoach

Does anyone who flies F1C support these changes? I would like to talk
them. Please contact me at

Don DeLoach
NFFS Editor

F1C Rulings

From: Gil Morris

Roger, I may be repeating myself because my first try didn’t appear to go through but may have.

I for one am satisfied with the 4 sec. engine run ruling. Much of my flying is at Muncie and I think the shorter power run will help to shorten flights and more likely keep them on the field. Most of my test flights made at Muncie are with engine runs under 4 sec. so it’s no stranger to me. However, as for the RDT ruling, I don’t think a blanket edict is appropriate or necessary. Each individual should decide for himself what is safest and appropriate for his circumstances.


I note with some irony/sadness that this issue is 20-20. Clearly we have not reached that level of vision yet or rather we have not shared that level of vision ..

Roger Morrell